but making space for waste. gene. the first, david boyd, the the first, david boyd, the man leading the aig charge. captioned by closed captioning services, inc >> glenn: welcome to the "glenn beck program." tonight we set the liberal blogsphere on fire. there will be a lot of those in their mom's basement angry with me, which isn't different from most days but today is exception because today we take on the mother of all sacred cows: education. "oh, he's going too far now. yeah! he's cutting education. you can't do that." yes, we can, and oh, yes, we will. c'mon, let's go! ♪ ♪ >> glenn: hello, america. i'm such a mess today. my watch is wrong.

everything. i'm a little sleepy. ben drill. so the benadryl may kick in and i may pretend to take a nap before the end of the program. this week, we are talking about things that i think that we need to do and i think we need to think about to save america from going broke. if you think america can't go broke, this show is not for you. turn it over to spongebob squarepants and walk him talk to the crab for a while because you're in denial, jack. you don't belong here. people at cato institute put together great ideas and we've been talking about them. my ideas would be a little more extreme. yes. more extreme than like today, cato will show us how to cut the department of education. i say that doesn't go far enough. we have to make a choice as people whether or not we're going to survive or not. is america going to survive? is it going to thrive? or are we going to

fundamentally transform to something nobody can describe or identify? if you think we can go back to the "r"s, because the "d"s are screwing it up right now, you're sadly mistaken. we need people with big thinking, radical thinking. contrary to popular belief, i don't think the problems we talk about on this program originate solely with obama. we walked on the cliff for a long time and obama is going in the same direction because he's sprinting and really fast. the problem runs deeper than just him. it's time for america to think out of the box and think bigger than any symbolic budget cuts like obama did a year ago, after he passed a $787 billion stimulus package, $787 billion, he boldly proclaimed that the government must fine some way to -- find some way to cut $$100 million out of the budget. here it is. >> so what we're going to do

is line-by-line, page-by-page, $100 million there, $100 million here. pretty soon, even in washington, it adds up to real money. >> glenn: pretty soon! he is so right. pretty soon. all you have to do is find this, $ this, 7,878 times. find $$100 million -- this is the benadryl. i'm staying away from the numbers today. call me crazy, but i don't see it happening. do you? most of the big ticket items are locked in. this is the budget. go to the budget. there it is. here is the budget. we have disaster -- i don't even see defense in here. where is defense. we have discretionary spending and the interest on

the debt. remember what obama said. i'm going to take this seriously and freeze the budget. he froze this amount. that's it! if my wife said hey, you can't tough this amount of pie, i say to her, okay, honey. fine. she leaves the kitchen and i'm eating pie, man! by 2025, interest payments combined with the cost of social security -- interest payments -- along with the cost of social security, this and this, will eat up every single tax dollar that comes in. there is none less for defense. nothing for the healthcare package or roads, bridges, infrastructure. nothing. last night i told you we need to abolish the way the entitlements are set up. we need to make good on those who are receiving it or about to receive it. but everybody else -- sorry,

this includes me. i'm in the age bracket as well as 46. the money is not there. we have to stop acts like we're surprised. cut social security? it's going bankrupt? the money was never there. we knew this as kids! tonight i want to look at education. first, i want to go over two things in the new healthcare bill. one of these things america didn't know was in there. the other congress didn't even know. first, congrecongress, i cordino the "new york times" the bill actually threatens -- this might be the benadryl but i think it is the story that warmed my heart, something near and dear to the politicians' heart may be gone. their generous government healthcare plans. yes. the article states, here it is, the law apparently bars member of congress from the federal healthcare program on

the assumption that lawmakers should join many of their constituents in getting coverage through new state-based markets known as insurance exchanges. even better, the healthcare bill does not specify a start date. so according to standard interpretation, when there is no specified date, it goes into effect immediately. in other words, anyone in congress still receiving their fat cat healthcare plan is now a law-breaker. but what is new? they must also join a state-based insurance exchange, which doesn't even exist yet. even the "new york times" realizes maybe this wasn't such a good idea to pass this bill. "if they did not know exactly what they were doing to themselves, did lawmakers who wrote and passed the bill fully grasp --" i'm going to have an aneurysm

reading this stuff. "fully grasp the details of how it would influence the lives of other americans?" no, they didn't care. they didn't realize it. they didn't write it. they didn't read it. they didn't do either of them. they just took the money and ran. however, this should be the only good idea in the healthcare bill. that is where i come in. derived value of benefit and the healthcare and everything else. oh, let's do a little fun with numbers, shall we? for the person in the private sector. you remember the cadillac plans? the cadillac plans for you. what is it? anything over $10,000 a year. the average person makes under in benefits, under $9,000 -- or under $10,000. just over $8,000.

for a federal employee, well, benefits, you know how much the benefit package is worth? federal employees. did you know that? this is you! this is them. if i were king for a day or president of the united states, i could use the missiles, i don't care what the bill says. i'd be shouting from the rooftops that government employees should not have health insurance better than the citizens will be forced to get under what just passed. government employees should not be getting better benefit and they shouldn't be getting better salaries. remember, your salary, average american salary, $50,000. the average congre congressman, $174,000.

i find that interesting because it's just under the government's definition of "rich," which is $200,000. they're not rich. they're just like you. really? seems like a fun game if we were playing a game. come close, but don't go over. i think it's on the "price is right." but unfortunately this is not a game show. this is our life. what a coincidence. by the way, the president not only gets all of this great stuff here, he has his own doctors and surgeons. he makes $400,000 a year. let me ask you a question. why are we paying this to the president when we know he will get filthy rich 14 seconds after he walks out of office? why are they paying the people anything? have they ever heard of, dare i say it, service? the average federal employee

earns $70,000 a year. okay? this is congress, this is the average employee. they earn $70,000 a year. notice this number bigger than your number. the private sector earns $57,000 a year. can someone explain to me the government employees are doing that is so special, so special that when you look at, when you look at this plus this, this plus this, you tell me what it is they deserve double the amount of the private sector worker gets. hang on. second thought. i takes them twice as long to do the same amount of work if they are working for the government. so that may be a moot point. why are we having people work for the government? why are we paying people this much money? you're paying it. it's your salary.

it's coming out of your children's college education. if we stopped paying people -- we'd just pay what they pay on the outside world. we would say $44.5 billion, if we made their benefits the same as ours. that would be another $60 billion. do the math. just by evening the playing field, $104.5 billion. wow! when i look at this, this is the private sector and this is the government. that seems to be windfall profits. doesn't it sound kind of like that? do you want to confiscate those, anybody in washington? do you know how many -- this

is just something. i'm going to relish this and enjoy the next minute or so. do you know how many hungry children we could feed with $104.5 billion? these fat cats in washington. salary stote -- salary strothe told me for price of a cup a coffee a day i could save a child. that's $600,000 a year if the fri greedy employees would give up their windfall profits we could feed 174 million children. why do the federal employees want hundreds of millions of children to starve to death? why? you don't like it when it's laid back on you. it's so easy to play it back on you.

barack obama also took over the student loan industry because of the greedy middleman. the banks had the gal to take $68 billion in profits for services renders. so, why wouldn't he be appalled at the windfall profits of $104 billion of federal employees? you know what i like to do? tie their salary to your salary. if your salary goes up, in the private sector, their salary goes up. tied to the average salary of the american. why would that be a bad idea? this brings me to education. the other thing jammed in the bill that americans didn't know about, is how the government is controlling all the student loans. coincidently, they're creating more and more incentives and ways to have the loans forgiven. for instance, like doing service and working for the

government. wow! i mean, look at the perks. here is the private sector, here is working for the government. look at the salary. this is you. this is the congressmen, this is the average -- and now what they're going to do, now they're actually going to make it more lucrative. at what point do we stop calling it service to work for the government? it doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice. the only ones that are sacrificing are the taxpayers. what we're doing is baying people this, plus their college education if they come and take this money. what do you say we stop and turn the car around? go in the opposite direction. right now liberal bloggers are in their basement, well, their mom's basement and typing away, "glenn beck doesn't want to educate children." yes, yes, yes. here is the thing. i do want to educate

children, but dumping billions of dollars at schools that are failing isn't the way to do it. look at the numbers. 1965, it was not even the department of education. it was the department of the interior and we were spending $12 billion. today, the department of ed, $103 billion. look at the chart. look at this. 1965. then progressives and the great society. whoa! what happened here? how is that strategy working out for you? ready for this? between 1973 and 2008, the test scores. whoo! i don't do math very well, but i think if i carry the one -- math scores. two points. reading scores. they put the blanks here because i don't know what the

word means. yeah. see this? this f this was an ekg of your heart, which it kind of is. education. the heart of our country. we're dead. money doesn't do it. money never does it. money corrupts. how do you fix education? well, first of all, we start to fix our families. james madison mother taught him to read and write. john quincy adams was home schooled until the age of nine. what about this guy? abraham lincoln, he was homeschooled. his mother taught him to read. his mother. from borrowed books. the story goes that thomas edison, his teacher thought he was feebleminded, unteachable. he was kicked out of school. mom taught edison.

you know, the lightbulb guy how to do it at homhome. "good will hunting," for the love of pete. he got his education -- i saw the money! this is a picture of my grandfather up here. there is my grandfather. fourth grade education. the guy helped make a moon rover. when did we say self-education was a bad thing? when did we stop pushing ourselves to learn? when my daughter mary, i think it was the second grade, i asked the teacher -- this was stupid. i asked her for a syllabus. the teacher said, "this is the second grade." can i get the books you have? i want to read at home with her. yeah -- yada, yeaadyada. the teacher said, "mr. beck."

mrs. hoffenbyme. she said, "teaching is my job." i said really? this is the way i look at it. this is my child. teaching my child is my job. you are my assistant. that is the only assistance i want. i need your help. this is all i need. this is my job. many also try in the educational system to help my kid, you know, learn about sex and then help them cross state lines and get abortions indoctrinating them about the evil of the free market system and maybe on the way home they can stop by a marxist nemarx ist meeting. what do you say? it makes no sense to teach the way we've been teaching for 100 years. especially with the technology we have. our founders and many others prove you don't need mean for a great education.

you need desire. you need a good book. we need to get control of the schools back to the parents, back to the states. the best way to do this is to apolish the department of education. we certainly don't need to give them more money. the federal government should only be responsible for the things that the states can not do. you want the state department, you need the state department. fine. got it. department of educatieducation, think as a state we can cover that. thank you very much. let me show you how out of control our government is and how out of control our thinking has become. doing two things that i just said, taking people off the dole and give them disincentive for working for the federal government and completely eliminating the department of education. ready? how much is that going to save? we eliminated the department of education. we cut everybody's salaries, okay?

we would save -- a billion, right? $200 billion. $200 billion. that is about a quarter of the stimulus bill. that's how massive all of the things we've been doing is. a quarter. we have a long way to go, gang. all right. so let's just say that we cut the department of education. now what? look at ways to improve schools and save money. steven dubner is here and he has been looking for alternative to the government. what else can we do besides government education? we go there next. abolish the department of education. next. ç the screenings that happen here

might be fun or dramatic, but it's not real life. there's another screening that is real life, and it could save your life. it's a screening test for colorectal cancer, the second-leading cancer killer of men and women. screening finds precancerous polyps, so they can be removed before they turn into cancer. i got screened. now, it's your turn. so you can stick around and enjoy the show.

if you're 50 or older, get screened for colorectal cancer. >> glenn: all right, today, we decided we're going to get rid of the department of education. i don't know why this is a ridiculous idea. it's only really been in existence since 1979. we'll tell you a little of the history of it in a few minutes. i would save us $100 billion. take a look at the graph. 81%, 81% of the department

spending goes back to the state. let me get this right. only the federal government. i take my local money and send it to washington and they send it back. that doesn't make sense to me. to tell us how to do this and the alternative is the director of tax policy studies at the cato institute. chris edwards, and, of course, he's the author of "downsizing for the federal government" and steven dubner author of "superfreakonomics." chris, let me start with you. this is such a sacred cow, and yet it's a relatively new department. >> right. jimmy carter created department of education in 1979 under pressure from the education association. reagan came in office in '80 promising to abolish it and

called it carter's boondoggle but he was not able to apolish it. >> glenn: how did it gain so much power in that short period of time? >> the funding started in 1965 when it was another part of another department. the states unionize the workforces in the 1960, so the teacher union got power in the 1960s. a crazy system. we spent hundreds of thousands on k-12 education, taxpayers have, over 40 years and the test scores as you show have been flat for 40 years. obviously, all the money is not helping. >> glenn: how can you cut this? if we cut the department of education, how about poor state ss? what happens to poor states? >> oddly, the main reason for creating all the federal education money originally was title one. the money is supposed to go to the poor states and districts, but i live in the highest income county in the country, fairfax county in virginia, the school i send my kids to in fairfax county

gets title one money for disadvantaged kids. the money that is supposed to go to the poor districts now spread all over the country to the richest county, just because that's how congress works. every member of congress wants a share. >> glenn: i tell you, i think we are so screwed up. steven, maybe you can address this a little bit. we built these palaces, educational palaces, if you go to any nice town and the nicest buildings will be the schools. that's not necessary. i got a good education. went to private school. my dad worked at a bakery and had to work it off to go to the school. we never wasted, had to use both sides of the paper. i remember when i went to ninth grade, and it was the first time i had ever been in a public school. it was vegas! >> you grew up in a nice zip code then. where i was, it was okay. where i am now, new york

city, public schools are certainly not palted. here is what i say. i'll leave the question whether to give rid of the department of ed to people with bigger sledgehammers than me. it becomes a political issue. what i do is hopefully the opposite of politics. what i know, however, is the idea of having the federal government setting education policies way down the line seems to not be a good idea. as you talk about here. when we look at test scores and r.o.i.s, you think like a business person look at r. oi r.o.i. and we are spending more money and getting less output. if you ask a lot of educators, the honest educators what matter most in the school. classroom size, dollars per student. what matter most? all the ones i talk to and who do research say one thing: teachers' skill. that's all that matters. teacher skill. >> glenn: we're going to a break here so let me go to a break. they have rubber rooms in new york. this is insanity when you look at what the things are

doing that. is the problem. good teachers can't teach. and we've -- you work for the "new york times"? >> i did. >> glenn: you did. why did you leave? >> partly because i didn't want to union job. >> glenn: why? >> there is the dead wood problem. people doing work compete with people who don't do work and paid the same. >> glenn: it makes everybody mediocre. you have teachers who care. there are great teachers out there but they can't get past the deadwood there. my daughter i think in fourth grade she was taught never buy anything from japan, because you know the japanese are our enemies. what are you talking about? she was so old with tenure, you couldn't fire her. living in world war ii style. back in a second.

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i'm patti ann browne. the death toll rises in china after a 6.9 magnitude quake. state news reports nearly 600 are dead and more than 10,000 injured. rescuers have been using their bare hands to dig through rubble for survivors. executive order from west virginia's governor today for the immediate inspection of all of the state's 200-plus underground coal mines. joe manchin is having them cease production friday in honor of the 29 miners killed in an explosion this month. moment of silence moments ago on the u.s. house floor in honor of poland's president

killed in a plane crash with his wife and 93 others on saturday. glenn beck in a moment. but first, bret. hi, bret. >> bret: coming up, the chairman of the federal reserve drops a bombshell about the nation's debt. we all will pay in interest if things don't change. tea party boston style. ahead of tax day thursday. join me in 26 minutes for "special report." now back to glenn. ♪ ♪ >> glenn: hello, america. 19 -- oh. hello, america. 1979 was the year when congress passed and president carter signed into law the department of education. 1989 this guy did it. that's when a separate executive department was set up. before that, it was just in the department of interior and it was small. then it began to be represented in the cabinet.

since then, our education system has it gotten better or worse? is there any reason to believe maybe we're wasting a lot of money? let me show you something here in new york. we found something called rubber rooms. these are rooms where teachers go, and they don't teach. but they do get paid. there are now 675 teachers in eight rubber rooms set up through new york city alone. last year, the city paid its rubber room teachers $40 million in salary. 40. they do nothing. they sit there. and make money. watch. >> what the rubber room is, it's like a jail for teachers. >> it's an allegation made against anybody before they even find out the facts issue that send to what is literally a holding facility. >> charges have not been sub

stafrn sub -- substant nanatat natiate we're in purgatory of educators. >> no work. no duty. just have to be there to get your full pay. >> some people say you are so lucky. you are doing nothing and you get your salary. don't fool yourself. there isn't one person in that room that thinks they're lucky. >> glenn: then quit! then quit! have some self-respect and get a job where you are working. they sit there and do nothing and collect a check. here are two examples of rubber room occupants who are just tortured people. first one, alan rosenfeld. there he is. he is in queens. he doesn't teach since he was accused of making lewd comments to students. since 2001, he has been pulling his teacher salary of

$100,049. he sits there in the rubber room and oversees his $7.8 million real estate portfolio and law practice. has some self-respect, man! now we also have francisco oliveres, this guy. he is a math teacher, but he is not teaching math. after allegedly, allegedly impregnating and marrying a 16-year-old student. i don't know how you allegedly marry a student, but he did. he also allegedly sexually molested two, not one, two 12-year-old pupils a decade later. hmm. i feel bad for him. sitting in the rubber room, collecting $94$94$94,145 a year doing nothing. in some places you'd be in jail for allegedly impregnating a 16-year-old girl and/or marrying her and the sexual molestation thing. but not in new york. no, no, no.

for his efforts he is bringing in over $94,000 a year. the department of education, mind you, blames the teachers union for the problem. the teachers union blames the department of education. i say we eliminate both of them. problem fixed. chris edwards, director of tax policy studies at the cato institute and steven dubner author of "freakonomics." okay. where am i wrong? >> well, the solution here is to apolish monopoly unions or collective bargaining in the public sector. it sounds radical for new york. but new york, new jersey, california, have high unionization in the public sector. three-quarters of the states have collective bargaining. a quarter of the states, 12 states have no collective bargaining in the public sector so states like virginia where i live there are no teachers unions. north carolina, no teachers union. they can join voluntary associations and that's fine, but no unions. >> glenn: it seems to me that

we had pretty good, pretty good record of schools, not everywhere. i mean there are places where you have to make sure that, you know, we're taking care of students. but it seems like we were doing pretty good with the greatest generation. then in the 1960s, what changed? >> well, one thing that changed is the feminist revolution. women, you know, it used to be 55% of all female graduates in the country became school teachers. the best and brightest women became school teachers. it was one of the only professions open to them. when other professions came open to them, they could go into law and medicine. wonderful for society and wonderful for the women, the best and brightest no longer became teachers. the overall teacher talent level fell. other thing, if you went to sleep 200 years ago and woke up today one of the few places you would recognize is teaching classroom in the united states. one teacher, 30 kids in a box. and that is what we need to look at. we need to look at the job that teachers are meant to do and how it needs to change.

>> glenn: how do you mean? what needs to change? >> you could argue a lot of things need to change. the same school system that brings the rubber room, new york city, public school system in new york city, brings a pilot program called the school of one, which i think we'll hear more about in future. a small pilot program now. it takes all the students in a classroom and instead of one teacher up there individually trying to teach 30 kids -- the kids learn differently at different paces in different ways. what this does is it uses technology to figure out what each kid is learning every day. they take a test at the end of every day. it goes in the computer. there is an algorithm that determines a play list for each kid. instead of the ipod play list you have a workstation play list. every kid is taught every day in a variety of modalities; meaning, sometimes it's a teacher with a large group, sometimes it's a small group of kids. sometimes it's one kid with the computer. we're in the 21st century and we're surrounded by wonderful technology.

it's time that teaching and the art of teaching and the science of teaching are kind of brought up to that. we need to rethink who that person is in the classroom. >> glenn: you say this and it gives me great hope we could do things but then you see what barack obama did on like his first week in office. in washington, d.c., are you familiar with this, chris? >> he abolished or is phasing out vouchers which worked successfully in -- >> glenn: in the worst parts of town! >> yes. >> glenn: it was shoot-out village. >> yeah. >> glenn: it was a favor again to the unions. >> vouchers in a lot of ways are wonderful. in a lot of situations and ways with schools in particular. what people in education worry about is people who use vouchers will skim the cream from the better school, from the worst schools to make the worst schools even worse. that's an issue with it. >> glenn: back in just a second.

>> glenn: back now with chris edwards from cato and steven dubner from "freakonomics." talking about cutting the department of education and having that discussion. i personally think we are in -- do you think we're in real trouble economically? >> economically, yeah. the short answer yeah, and the long answer is a long answer. yeah. debt wise, we talked about this. >> glenn: debt wise, crazy. >> you can't not be. the people who say they're not concerned, they're concerned, too. but there is a certain benefit to not yelling, you know, deficit in a crowded theater to some degree. [ laughter ] some. >> glenn: you have more people in people in washington that somehow or another they'll get out of the way. >> we have bigger fire extinguishers. >> glenn: the capitalist system was dying on the vine. chris, you also believe that there is problems in the -- >> there are giant problems. we need radical solutions. >> glenn: would you both agree that this is not a

radical solution? >> getting rid of the department of ed? >> glenn: yeah. it would be perceived as one. >> radical for artie duncan who runs it. >> glenn: right. >> what chris has to say about it is eye-opening. what services they perform, which is not -- >> ronald reagan wanted to demolish the department of education, but you talk about today it seems radical. canada, high advanced country never had department of education. they get higher test scores in international comparisons than we do in the states. they have more cool choice and -- school choice, voucher school and innovation and they don't have a federal department of education. how is that possible? because decentralized innovative, local school boards do better than a federal department. >> glenn: that is the thing. even intellectually say i'm not for big government. but one of the reasons why not is i never see it work. it doesn't innovate.

it never innovates. >> it's not unfair to say that big constituti institution unions don't tend to innovate well. sometimes they do, but they don't tend toward it. innovation usually happens is smaller. in education, where we see innovation now there is a charter school outfit capped k.i.p.p., knowledge is power program. they're now national. started with two teacher america graduates who got sent to teach in houston and they said holy cow! this is hard. teaching is incredibly hard. everything about the current system makes it harder. what if we start from scratch? i feel the innovation we're going to see is in places like kipp and school of one where you have people in the classroom and can try a lot of things. i wouldn't abolish the department of ed because i don't know what it would mean. what i think is good if you hand the power and the incentive to experiment down the line to the states and to the school districts where they can try to figure out what happened -- >> glenn: you wanted an "x" project and take some of the budget and use it for an "x"

project as a prize, so let them decide, they can pick. like massachusetts, i don't care if they have healthcare in massachusetts. it's failing, so now we shouldn't do what they just did, but that's what we should do with education. have an "x" prize. >> yeah. >> glenn: be able to innovate our way and then let the states do it. >> absolutely. one of the problems now is because the federal government spends all this money, all the focus on the lobby groups is on the spending and dollars. they lobby for more dollars, dollars, dollars. all about spending, not about the innovation or new ideas in innovatiinnovation. teachers want more money and money. all about money. >> glenn: i want to come back and talk about higher education and colleges. we'll do it coming back. next. @=h@útçñçpqç?p@÷@÷

>> glenn: with chris edwards and stephen dubner and talking about education. i want to touch base, we only have about two minutes on higher education. nobody, nobody looks at the cost of colleges and noticed that it is, i believe it's double the increases of healthcare. if you chart the increases of healthcare and college education, it's double. >> right. both public and private colleges and universities have been cranking up their tuition now for two decades or so. and part of the reason is because of this massive

increase in federal student aid, grants and loans has poured so much money in the system, harvard and the other universities figure they can get away with hiking up their tuition. where does the money go? it doesn't help students, it helps the universities pay the professors more money for research and build new buildings and that sort of stuff. >> glenn: how does tenure works -- how does teen y tenure works in colleges and -- >> who says it works in colleges? you mean why they have it? i can hook up with a lot of people saying the single best thing in university system is abolish tenure as well. >> glenn: the tenure would be important if you're in science or religion. >> the original purpose we know, to protect the academic freedom. that sounds great. but the instances in which it performs that function are pretty rare these days. >> glenn: yeah, we just had college students here and one college student told me that their professor said, "i got tenure, and there ain't

anything you can do about it." the worst teacher they ever had. >> i would say, add one thing to chris. i think tuition inflation, which unbelievably high is also really demand driven. we have had a generation or two of people now who thinks that everybody should go to college, everybody should go to college. everybody should go to a four-year college and that's not a smart way to think. >> you're right. there are too many kids in college and universities. do you know what the graduation rate after six years in the united states? it's only 60%. you know, so 40% of the kids go to college and never get a degree. >> glenn: we'll be right back. thanks. identity theft,

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